I’m pleased to announce the release of another episode of the “Exiles in the City” podcast, which takes inspiration from my book “Exiles in New York City: Warehousing the Marginalized on Ward’s Island.” The focus of the podcast is exclusion of marginalized groups within urban areas.
Click here to listen:
In this episode, I spoke with my friend Sascha Altman Dubrul about his personal experiences as well as his thoughts about social change. Sascha is a native New Yorker who has written about his mental health experiences and has been involved in the movement to change the way that those experiences are viewed by the mental health system. In the early 2000’s, he co-founded the Icarus Project, which is no longer active, but which had a big impact on how many people view experiences that are labeled “psychosis” and “mania,” advancing the idea that they are “dangerous gifts” that need to be better understood rather than stamped out. He currently works as a counselor/life coach following the Internal Family Systems approach. His book “Maps to the Other Side” is a collection of his writings from before and after the founding of the Icarus Project, and the new “Dangerous Gifts” zine series gives recommendations for improving wellness based on the IFS approach.
Our conversation focused on two main topics related to my book that I was interested in gathering Sascha’s thoughts about: both helpful and unhelpful aspects of the urban environment for mental health, and thoughts about an executive order that was recently issued by the White House, which calls for a number of things that have outraged many advocates for humane treatment, including de-funding supportive housing and shifting people who are homeless into “long-term institutional settings.” As you’ll hear, Sascha brings in a lot of really interesting material into the discussion that are informed by his many experiences as a recipient and provider of mental health services.
Earlier in our discussion Sascha mentions the work of his father, Paul Dubrul, a journalist who co-wrote the book “The Permanent Government: Who Really Runs New York.”
Also mentioned in my introduction to the podcast is the “Scream Therapy: a Punk Journey through Mental Health” book, authored by Jason Schreurs, which both Sascha and I were interviewed for. I encourage you to check out the book. We didn’t get to talk about our mutual connection to punk rock, but it hovers in the background of our conversation.
Later in the podcast, Sascha shares the concept of internal “exiles” from the IFS approach and really blows my mind by extending it to the social realm, suggesting that marginalized people in society represent its wounded parts and carry its unresolved burdens. This brought home to me how the title of my book can be understood on multiple levels.
Hope you like the podcast. Please stick around to the end to hear Sascha’s hopeful thoughts on how we can better support people who are marginalized and how we can change things for the better. If you like this podcast, please subscribe to the Substack to be informed when new episodes are released.
Interspersed throughout the podcast are clips of songs by bands that I have played in- The Accidents (NYC) and Dangaru. Songs are all available on Soundcloud. Featured songs are:
The Accidents (NYC): “Medication”
The Accidents (NYC): “Bottled-Up”
Dangaru: “Swingset”
The Accidents (NYC): “The Train Song”
Huge thanks again to Lexy for amazing and fast editing work!